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MafiaManiac > Mafia Discussion > Blocking Kills


Posted by: Yuli Jan 11 2018, 05:24 PM
A long time ago, we discussed http://mafiamaniac.net/index.php?showtopic=440.

I think that led to a pretty decent understanding of how other hosts viewed the OOA.

But now we have the concept of the "Blocking Kill" and I'd like to discuss that here using a few examples. From what I can gather, some hosts give kills the additional benefit of blocking their target.

This is my understanding:

Spoiler for OOA Where Kills are not blocking

Spoiler for OOA Where Kills are blocking

Spoiler for OOP where kills are not blocking

Spoiler for OOP where kills are blocking


Note that in the OOP versions, there isn't a difference between a blocking kill and a not-blocking kill. This is due to the principles behind OOP that I enjoy, and one of the reasons I use OOP almost exclusively. It makes the job of resolving actions a ton easier, especially in larger games.

Does anyone disagree with the results above using their understanding of OOA/OOP?

The only way I could see a different position is if you interpret "blocking kill" to mean both a block action and a kill action against the same target. I interpret it as "a kill that stops the target's action" so all of the blocking kill still falls under the OOA/OOP in one entry. If that's not the case, do saves also prevent the "block" part of the kill? Or just the kill?

Another question: If your kills are blocking, do self-saves ever work?

Posted by: maurice Jan 11 2018, 05:35 PM
I rarely use blocking kills, unless it's needed for balancing an action or something.

But I would then say self rave is pointless.

Also since I mostly eliminated redirects and blocking kills in my games, the really hasn't been a need to think about OOA/OOP.

That being said, I tend to think of OOA as being time driven, this is the order these actions take place, and OOP as all actions happen at the same time but A has precedence over B.

That would flip your descriptions above. But http://mafiamaniac.org/smile/idk.gif

Posted by: Yuli Jan 11 2018, 06:25 PM
QUOTE (maurice @ Jan 11 2018, 04:35 PM)
I rarely use blocking kills, unless it's needed for balancing an action or something.

But I would then say self rave is pointless.

Also since I mostly eliminated redirects and blocking kills in my games, the really hasn't been a need to think about OOA/OOP.

That being said, I tend to think of OOA as being time driven, this is the order these actions take place, and OOP as all actions happen at the same time but A has precedence over B.

That would flip your descriptions above.  But http://mafiamaniac.org/smile/idk.gif

So you're just using >> as OOA and > as OOP. That's understandable, and based on the wiki just looks like my misunderstanding.

Posted by: araver Jan 12 2018, 02:35 AM
I too have OOA and OOP flipped as labels. And I usually go by OOA though not necessarily all actions >> (strictly chronological)

About blocking kills, I rarely use them nowadays precisely since they prevent self saves. I've used that technique (draw fire on me then avoid the NK) a number of times and I think it is a valid goodie play. Otherwise I reckon one would lose the wifom if the doctor can't heal self. But I do remember having baddies very vulnerable in endgame because the NK was not blocking so I do recognize its merits.

But if it were a poll, I'd vote for no.

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