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 Internet Election Voting, Do you think voting online a good idea?
 
Do you think voting online a good idea?
Yes [ 2 ]  [16.67%]
No [ 9 ]  [75.00%]
Unsure [ 1 ]  [8.33%]
Total Votes: 12
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Cassandra
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  Posted Mar 1 2012, 11:59 AM
Here's a discussion better suited for what had been a dead thread on Brain Den ( http://www.mafiamaniac.net/img/Smilies/cry.gif ), but as that's not an option, I thought I'd put it here.

Here's an article from PBS that discusses efforts to take voting online and some of the pitfalls that experts see. Do you think allowing people to vote online is a good idea for democracy? unsure.gif


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  Posted Mar 1 2012, 03:11 PM
Can't seem to find the link


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Piciotto
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  Posted Mar 1 2012, 03:17 PM
I feel like online voting is about as prone to hacks as real world voting is. Hackers will always find a way, and the authorities will always do their best to stop them in a timely and efficient manner. If we are comfortable and secure in doing our taxes and banking online, then I'm sure the technology exists to create a safe online voting atmosphere.

This post has been edited by Makai: Mar 1 2012, 03:17 PM
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  Posted Mar 1 2012, 05:17 PM
I feel the cons of internet voting may outweigh the pro's. Governments however will likely proceed with on-line voting to save money.

It's not only the susceptibility to hacking or vote altering, but there is a secrecy element that will be lost. When you step into a booth all by yourself and cast a vote no one knows who you voted for except one person. Voting on-line, whether at home, work, or wherever loses just a little bit of that complete secrecy and opens the voter to outside influences.


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  Posted Mar 1 2012, 06:42 PM
For me the problem lies not in voters being hacked, but the ability of those in positions of power to "influence" the outcome of the election; you know "The Chicago Way"


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  Posted Mar 1 2012, 09:31 PM
Simply cast the vote when home alone for secrecy?
Cassandra
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  Posted Mar 2 2012, 11:36 AM
QUOTE (Makai @ Mar 1 2012, 08:31 PM)
Simply cast the vote when home alone for secrecy?

Professor Templeton's point is that the government can't guarantee that you'll be home alone to cast the vote. When you go in the voting booth, poll watchers are there and they can see that you are alone and know that no one else is seeing which way you voted while you have the ballot. But at home you could have an overbearing spouse or parent who insists on voting for you or on making sure you vote "the right way." You can't put a poll watcher in every house to make sure all the votes are cast without coercion.

The security aspect is also worrisome from my point of view. All it takes is one exploit anywhere in the system and hackers can compromise the whole system. I know some of the people from the University of Michigan who stole the election in the Washington DC electronic voting test mentioned in the segment. You can have all the security systems in the world, but all it takes to overcome it is one entry point because once you are inside, it's hard for the system to know that you don't belong there. And once the system is compromised, there's really no way to check its integrity.

There's a fundamental difference between doing your taxes or banking online and voting. When you're doing your taxes or paying bills online, there's only a relationship between you and the bank/tax service. The only reason a hacker might be interested in infiltrating that relationship would be to steal personal information or money from people, but it won't have a larger impact beyond the people directly affected. With voting, your vote is going to get added with everyone else's vote to decide who will be the next elected official. Stealing your vote can have a much larger impact on world affairs, so there would be a much greater interest in disrupting the election than in stealing your tax information.

And with tax information, you generally have your own records, so if something changes, you or the government will notice the difference. When you cast a vote, it's supposed to be secret, so you'll never be able to tell if it's been changed or not. Neither will anyone else, other than the hacker. Unless they find some completely new mechanism for security, dedicated hackers could always find a way in eventually. That's why security updates are always being released for operating systems and security software. When someone creates a new worm or virus, it usually exploits some vulnerability that no one's found before. So it's impossible to prove that your system is 100% secure. All you can know is that you've never been compromised, yet.

Electronic voting just worries me because of how hard it would be to detect if someone is inside the system and because you can't guarantee that there isn't someone pointing a gun at a voter, telling them to vote a specific way. Until there's a robust validation and verification mechanism in place, I wouldn't be comfortable with the results of an election decided by votes cast on the Internet.


A good programmer is someone who always looks both ways before crossing a one-way street.

Two novels can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other involves orcs.
--John Rodgers
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  Posted Mar 2 2012, 01:04 PM
I completely agree with you Sparrow. How do you feel about the so-called "voting ATM's"? It would still be electronic voting, but would give the voter greater flexibility on where they place their vote. It seems that there is still the potential for hacking or altering, however, less so.


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  Posted Mar 2 2012, 03:41 PM
A very simple answer to a simple question was no. Unless it has been perfected as being (fool proof) no difference to the way it is going now, I'd rather not take any chances with fraudulence.
I vote by mail myself. They send me the ballot, I fill it out and mail it back to them for free.


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  Posted Mar 3 2012, 12:31 AM
QUOTE (sparrowhawk @ Mar 2 2012, 10:36 AM)

Professor Templeton's point is that the government can't guarantee that you'll be home alone to cast the vote.  When you go in the voting booth, poll watchers are there and they can see that you are alone and know that no one else is seeing which way you voted while you have the ballot.  But at home you could have an overbearing spouse or parent who insists on voting for you or on making sure you vote "the right way."  You can't put a poll watcher in every house to make sure all the votes are cast without coercion.


This point is moot because the same can be said of mail-in ballots. No government worker is present to ensure that the vote being cast is indeed the opinion of whomever the ballot is meant to represent. With online voting, public stations would have to be made available because not everyone (sadly) has internet access, so anyone with overbearing relatives could cast their votes here. I feel like the vast majority of people will have no difficulty telling their relatives to politely bugger off, while the rest are subject to vote coercion anyway. It makes little difference. Meh.

I agree with your other points. If we can ever get to the point where the fallacies in the system have been thoroughly confronted, I'll be comfortable with it. Until then, I'll just remain faithful in the possibility because it would certainly simplify things.
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  Posted Mar 4 2012, 03:43 AM
However the voting is done, it really isn't up to the voters, it is all in the people or machines that count the votes if they can be controlled then the system is up for grabs for whoever has the biggest wallet.

You may think I am a crazy fool but sadly this is how our so called democracy works in the world we live in. Untill people care more about what happens to others and not just how rich they are, our governments will remain the boss and us the people just their pawns.

So you can vote for and how you like it makes no difference the rich fat cats are the ones that tell us who is in control, and our votes just go in the bin. laugh.gif
If you don't believe me, just ask yourself how the hell did young Bush get into the whitehouse. GOOD NIGHT


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The only reason I get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
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  Posted Mar 4 2012, 11:46 PM
My point is don't allow fraud to get worse and develop a way to make it fool proof. I still say no to online for now b/c I can't trust it as much as the US mail.


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  Posted Mar 8 2012, 03:51 AM
personally, I think electronic & online voting is almost the same...it wouldn't make as much difference...but maybe, if there was a way, like filling a form to get registered online, then voting, so that only YOU vote, no one else...with a password & all...http://www.mafiamaniac.net/img/Smilies/hm.gif http://www.mafiamaniac.net/img/Smilies/shrug.gif


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  Posted Mar 12 2012, 01:32 AM
BTW, it's not quite the topic that lives very long. tongue.gif


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  Posted Apr 6 2012, 07:41 PM
VOTE FOR PEDRO http://209.85.12.237/30019/134/0/e5024663/e5024663.png


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